Episode 14 / Matthew Roberts, Director at Roberts & Day
/by Roj Whitelock
London-based photographer and HSM Associate Member
Matthew Roberts - Director at Roberts & Day - talks about the need for every actor to think of themselves as a business and to stand out by celebrating the things that make them different. He also talks openly about the challenges working class actors face, the price of entry into the industry and how to develop your career on a budget.
Note: View on YouTube for captions.
"I think there's definitely still a barrier...people like Steven Graham and Ashley Waters, the work they're doing at the minute with 'Adolescence' and 'A Thousand Blows' is really good and I think more stuff like that is going to keep happening and keep coming. But there is definitely a block, especially within the theatre world - where unless you can afford the top level of accredited drama schools - then there's a barrier to entry."
Matthew Roberts
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From Liverpool To London
So we are 10 years in March. It started very much as a small boutique agency up in Liverpool, which is where I was living at the time. So I was working out my bedroom which was fantastic. And now we're based here in London, our offices are at Waterloo. We look after about 120 to 130 clients split across five different agents who cover musical theatre, TV and
film and voice over. So yeah, that's where we're at at the minute.
Invest In Yourself As A Business
Yeah, I mean yeah, it's certainly changed over the last 10 years. Some positive and some maybe less so. I think things like COVID had a really big impact on our industry, especially around how auditions are run and around investment and where the money is going within our industry. I think for an actor coming into this brand new right now investing in yourself as a business rather than relying on your agent or other opportunities to come to you is a really good outlook. So, the most successful actors tend to be the ones who are hungry and will reach out to casting teams or create their own work. And they're the people who ultimately are the ones that we're really really keen to work with. Anyone who can do that sort of self-motivated and self-driven stuff is really good. When it comes to you as a business, as an actor or wherever you are, if you can invest in the very basics, so headshots, CV, showreel, almost imagining a bit like it's a business that you would any other business and putting the time and effort and energy to research who you want to be your photographer. Do they specialise in TV and film or are they more musical theatre or are they voice focused? Once you've sort of chosen that, then thinking where do I want my casting to be? Do I want to be a West End Wendy? Do I want to be in those sort of big musical theater shows or do I want to go into things like the RSC, the National? Or do I want to kind of focus my efforts on the TV and film world? Do I want to be in the next Bridgerton series or something along those lines? Once you've kind of worked that out, then talk to your photographer and you can work together you will come up with the right thing, the right product. The same applies to showreels, and also your CV. But these are all things that can be consistently changing and evolving and developing. It's not something you have to get right straight away. And certainly through trial and error. And working with your agent or whoever else, you can really get to kind of that point. So yeah, I think researching and understanding the industry is probably a really good starting point and then you can kind of build from there.
Embrace Your Differences
Yeah, I think maybe 10, 15, 20 years ago, those kind of differences that make us all individual would have been looked at and you would have maybe tried to shun away from it and go for a very straight down the road, this is your blank canvas headshot. Whereas now, I think if you look at the wider sort of scope of where actors are and who's having a lot of success, you'll notice that people are embracing their differences, whether that's an individual way you look or tattoos or piercings or hairstyle or whatever it is. So I think for anyone coming to get a headshot and is worried about that, the most common one that I find is people worry about their glasses. So, if they wear glasses, a lot of the time they might go, "Well, I don't want to have them because they're a bit of a block to the camera" or wherever it is. But having a mix of photos where you, you know, either have them on, have them off, have your hair up, hair down. If you've got, I don't know, big teeth or a scar or a birthmark or something like that, it can be very easy to kind of look at that as a negative thing, whereas actually it adds to you as a performer because it's something that somebody else doesn't have. And those individualities are what make you you and ultimately make you castable. And if a casting director or a producer or director wants to work with you, they're going to be looking at, yes, how you look as a person, but also are you able to take a character and embody that character and make it your own. And ultimately being that blank canvas for where they place that character - and you do your job and act - is what's going to get you the job. So, yeah, I would absolutely fully embrace anything that makes you different or makes you stand out.
Breaking Down The Cost Barriers
Yeah, it is a tricky one because I do - Yeah. So I grew up in Leeds from a very working-class background. So I totally understand that it's that barrier to entry. Working on a stage or in theatre wasn't really something that was well known where I was from. But I had very supportive parents who took me to a little local dance school. Nothing fancy, but like it did the job, and took me to choir lessons and singing lessons and basically took everything they had that wasn't going to support me and my brothers to then help me learn and become a performer. So I do understand it, but even at kind of university level we couldn't afford the tuition fees for drama school. So I went to a very, very small college in Blackpool. I did musical theatre there. And I met some incredible performers, but also some really, really good tutors who encouraged me and supported me. And actually coming from a very working-class background, that was probably the right thing for me to do because I remember coming to London and auditioning for drama schools and being very overwhelmed by all these new accents and people who, you know, I remember going to - I think it was GSA or somewhere - and seeing my first Starbucks and thinking, "What on earth is this?" And people ordering chai lattes and not having a clue. So yeah, I think there's definitely still a barrier. I think people like Steven Graham and Ashley Waters, the work they're doing at the minute with Adolescence and Thousand Blows is really good and I think more stuff like that is going to keep happening and keep coming. But there is definitely a block especially I think within the theatre world where unless you can afford the top level of accredited drama schools then there's a barrier to entry to our industry. I think there's a reason why people only ever see Arts Ed, Lane, Mountview, GSA graduates in the big shows and repeatedly because yes, they do provide the best level of education for that thing. But they also come with a hefty price tag. And, you know, if you come from a small working-class family who maybe can't afford 15, 19 grands worth of education and to then pay to live in London, and everything that comes with that, then you just can't do it. So, yeah, I think something has to change more. I do think and something that I really love to do is working with sort of northern schools, universities, places that aren't your sort of run-of-the-mill drama schools. So places like Leeds Conservatoire are fantastic. There's the old Leeds College of Music. Lincoln University, again, really good places like the Arden in Manchester, they're all drama schools and they work and teach drama, but they're a lot more accessible to people who maybe can't afford the price tag because it's down here. Um but I find more and more that casting directors, especially within TV and film, are a lot more open now to working class actors. And I think a few - it was Erin Doherty who did an interview recently about kind of her upbringing and how she got into acting and when Nina Gold cast her in The Crown and about how much that impacted and changed her sort of trajectory in life. But I think it needs more people from working-class backgrounds or a diverse background be that social or religious or ethnic or whatever it is to then keep diversifying and keep helping our industry grow. But ultimately there is a price tag and there is a price barrier to it. And I think things like the Arts Council, the PMA, Equity, Spotlight, the sort of industry leaders that we have, who we all work with and help each other out, I think the more that they can do to help get funding or bring more diversity in through those channels, I think the better it will be. But yeah. Yeah, I think for anyone who was wanting to get into acting, especially from a working class or lower economic class background, don't get so pent up on having to be at one of the huge drama schools. But also don't see that as a block. If you want to apply for them, then apply for them. There are loads of really good scholarships that a lot of them do now, which are fantastic. And that gives opportunities to people who can't afford it to be able to be part of it. So the big school, Arts Ed, Mountview, all of those ones, they all do scholarships, which are fantastic. And if that's still the barrier and you still can't go that way, then have a look at some of the schools up north. Have a look at Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham - all those kind of areas have their own drama schools and it's another way in. And if you still can't do that, then have a look at creating your own work. Who can you work with to create pieces of theatre? Do you need to go and train or could you potentially go and take classes? Actors workshop do classes and things like that that you can maybe do a couple of hours a week or something and pay a smaller fee and learn the basics and kind of build and develop from there. Yeah, those would be the kind of areas you can go to. And again with things like Spotlight or headshots or showreels, who do you know and who are you meeting through those things who could help you out? Things like Actors Access or...what's it called? One of the acting expo...the Actors' Expo. That's it. They have quite a low entry fee and it's a great way to meet other actors, other performers, but also photographers, videographers, all sorts of people who would be very willing to then go, great, yeah, we'll put together something and you're starting to then build up a portfolio. But also sitting at home and watching an episode of TV or watching a film or watching the director's cut of a movie with a director's commentary over the top is a great way to start to learn your craft. And if you're wanting to, I don't know, be in Star Wars films, then learn everything you can about that. Look at the actors who are in it. Look at their journeys and how they've kind of worked towards those things. The more sort of self-educating you can do the better. And it's one of those things that we all keep doing every day. We learn something new. I know I certainly do. And you can learn from your peers or from media that's already out there. So yeah, that's what I'd be doing.
Standing In The Same Rooms
Yeah, I mean I think agents are just people. We're all going through the same journey you've done. Everyone that works for me has been either a performer, still performs, or has been involved in performing somehow. And that was really important for me because I wanted the agents to understand what it feels like to be in a room and told 'no' multiple times before you get a job. So that when you have a client who's going through a bit of a hard time or a bit of a dip, then they're able to then kind of progress and get through that. So to anyone looking to apply or to find an agent, do your research. Know who they are, know their background because everyone's different. Most of it's pretty accessible through Instagram or LinkedIn or on the website. Find out what their clients are doing. Talk to their clients. If you're maybe getting a couple of offers, especially as graduates, if you're getting offers from lots of different people, then there's no reason why you can't reach out to the actors on that person's books and say, "Hey, like I've had an offer from your agency. I'd love to know what your experience is." It's like I certainly don't have any problem with people doing it to mine. They're all very lovely. They're very approachable. So yeah, stuff like that's really good. If you really don't know where to start then I have no problem with people reaching out to me on email asking for some advice, having a chat. I'm always open to having a coffee. So yeah, that's definitely something that's there. But ultimately we work in a creative industry and there really is no better industry to work in. We're very lucky that our our job is to entertain people. And we get paid to do that, be that as agents or casting directors or actors or photographers or whatever it is. We get to work in something that people after they've worked a 12-hour shift come and put on the TV and get to watch you doing it. And I think it's really important to remember that actually that's why we do it because we love it. And it can be stressful and it can be hard, but there's so many great third party support companies who do welfare, things like the 'Time For Change' campaign was fantastic for that. And all those resources are still there that people can access and be part of. And I think ultimately the creative community as it is, is a really loving, caring one. And it's really really is an honor and a privilege to be part of every single day.
